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Radio Interview: Informational Interviewing with Marty Gahbauer

If you want to learn about informational interviewing, then it helps to do so from someone who conducted over 100 of them and learned the nuances of this process. That person is Marty Gahbauer and my radio interview with him was a fun opportunity to go over many of the most important insights he shares during a much longer seminar.

The following link will take you to a site where you can download a free podcast and then listen to it when the time is right. That could be during your commute, at the gym, during a shopping trip, whenever. http://bit.ly/1gCrBlx

I hope you enjoy it and please share it with other jobseekers who could benefit from this approach. In a shameless plug, my book, No Medal for Second Place: How to Finish First in Job Interviews, has a chapter covering the subject.

My best,

Tom Payne

 

The Young and the Unemployed

This is not the title of a soap opera, it is where the U.S. finds itself and it is a dangerous place.

Almost 6 million young people, aged 16-24, are neither at work nor in school. That’s about 15% of this demographic. What makes this such an unsettling fact is the longer-term implication of a generation waiting for work and failing to develop those skills required for advancement. This isn’t about individuals being unable to climb a corporate ladder; it is about U.S. businesses one day needing talented people to compete globally and finding this talent in short supply, because it never had the opportunity to develop.

The U.S. Capitol Building
The U.S. Capitol Building

Who is at fault? President Obama? The Republican-led House of Representatives? The Democratic-led Senate? With respect to your current state of unemployment, it doesn’t matter. Furthermore, if the unemployed focus on assigning blame, then the struggle to find work will almost certainly fail. Why? Because it requires an incredible amount of energy to secure meaningful work in this environment and wallowing in the comfort of excuses, and blaming others, is a luxury the unemployed cannot afford.

The first step that must be taken by the young and unemployed is to steer clear of blaming the economy, politicians, or anyone else. Young or old, the mindset must be, “I am responsible for my current situation. Therefore,” the responsible jobseeker asks, “What am I doing wrong, and what must I do right, to change this situation?” This may seem like strong medicine, but until we take full responsibility for our current situation we will be distracted by excuses from focusing on what is important.

If you are serious about finding work, then assess your current job search condition with this simple diagnostic:

  1. Do you understand the value your strengths offer?
  2. Do you even know what your strengths are? (If you don’t, that’s okay, because most people don’t.)
  3. Can you articulate them to a hiring authority in a compelling way?
  4. Are you networking effectively? Besides your LinkedIn page, are you pursuing informational interviews to network your way into the hidden job market?
  5. Have you developed stories to share your unique skills in a memorable way?
  6. CTC ChicagoAre you taking advantage of professional help? Coaching? It may be within your financial reach and it will accelerate the growth of your job search skills in ways you cannot imagine. For example, I serve as a volunteer coach at the Career Transitions Center of Chicago and their three month program costs $300. Check your location for similar programs. They may be offered by churches or synagogues, Chambers of Commerce, University alumni programs, but they will give you another perspective which is invaluable.

There is much more to do than answering these few questions, but it is a start. It is moving in the right direction. It is acting responsibly and facing the challenge of this tough job market with a positive, focused, no-excuses attitude that will be far more productive than one that allows the crippling luxury of excuses.

The Cute Puppy

The pet store owner told the parent, “Just take this puppy home and see if you want to keep it or not. And you are right. She is awfully cute.”

Cute-DogsWe know how this story ends. The cute puppy enters the house, the children adopt her, and there is no way she is ever going to leave. Sold!

One of the most powerful ways to promote yourself in an informational interview, or a job interview, is to create in the hiring authority’s mind the image of you already working for the company. There are several ways of achieving this.

For example, during an informational interview you begin with a statement that asserts the value you can bring to an organization:

“Hi Joe, I thought we’d begin this informational interview by me telling you a little about myself, because many of the questions I’m going to ask are tied directly to this.”

Joe, says, “Sure. Go ahead.”

“Okay. In previous positions I’ve demonstrated the ability to look at hundreds of obstacles, threats, opportunities, and the like, and filter out all but the most important task that deserves my complete attention. And then I focus on it until the task is completed. And this has produced outsized gains. For example, I saw the urgent need to develop a distributor sales training program and it took two months of focused effort, but it resulted in the doubling of revenue and growing our market share from a base of 25% to over 50%. How do you see these analytical, problem-solving skills, combined with creativity, transferring to the challenges in your industry?”

I’ve articulated my strengths, or presented my personal brand, and have now asked the interviewer to imagine these strengths working for him in his industry. I am starting to migrate from my side of the table to his. I continue this process with other questions.

“Some people who are between jobs view themselves as being a problem, a burden, and they are seeking a solution, or a job. But I think I am solution seeking some hiring company’s problems. So what are the most difficult problems you face?”

CuteThen, once they share these problems with you, you begin to ask what their approach has been to solving it, and if they’ve tried doing this and that. By doing this, you’ve assumed the role of an employee doing what employees are hired to do: Solve their companies problems, remove obstacles to growth and profitability, and the more you do this and demonstrate how you are a positive force, the more you become like that cute puppy who has just found a new home.

However, you are not seeking a job during this informational interview. It is an attempt to both get information, and more importantly, to network within a new industry. That said, when you have made yourself so desirable that the interviewer would hire you, if he or she could, then how much more willing will this person be to share with you the names and numbers of potential job sources?

Confirmation Bias, Groupthink and the Value of Coaching

Our minds can mislead us, play tricks on us and, ultimately, narrow the range of choices we are willing to consider until we end up making a very bad choice. Bad decisions, bad choices, are at the heart of many a stalled job search.

confirmation biasMany people are familiar with the phrase confirmation bias. It is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their hypotheses or beliefs. Information that supports their view proves their hypothesis is correct, while contrary information is filtered out. For example, a jobseeker might believe his background limits him to searching in a narrow field of possibilities. He gets some interest from companies in this area and no interest from companies outside of it. This response of the hiring world confirms his bias; however, he might have been ideally suited for a position outside of his limited field of search, and discovered this, had he expanded his networking and informational interviewing beyond his narrow, self-imposed limits.

It is extremely difficult for a person, working alone, to break free of the mental prison of confirmation bias. One of the roles of an outside coach is to assist in this liberation. Coaches don’t tend to share the bias of their client and they can, in many cases, get their client to see the need to approach their problem differently. So, the key is for the jobseeker to work with other people, right?

Not necessarily. There is a type of confirmation bias on steroids known as groupthink, and it can thrive in a jobseeker’s tight circle of family and friends. In groupthink the desire for harmony within the group, and the sense of loyalty to the group, makes each individual reluctant to entertain opposing views and alternative solutions. These may result in conflict. Therefore, everyone thinks alike, critical thought is absent, and bad decisions are made.

Pearl HarborIrving Janis, who wrote a book that introduced this idea, illustrated this phenomenon in the attack on Pearl Harbor. In late November, 1941, Admiral Kimmel, the commanding officer stationed at Pearl Harbor, received one of many warnings that a Japanese attack was both a strong possibility and imminent: “This dispatch is considered to be a war warning. Negotiations with Japan have ceased and an aggressive move by Japan is expected in the next few days.” This came from Washington D.C.

He discussed this with the four officers who were part of his inner circle and they all continued to cling to their pre-existing belief: “There is just no way Japan would attack a U.S. naval facility.” Kimmel’s group had an extreme degree of cohesion. One of his officers referred to himself as a Kimmelite, and they never seriously considered an alternative point of view. The result was a devastating surprise attack on December 6, 1941.

Confirmation bias and groupthink are mental shackles. They prevent us from seeing clearly, solve problems effectively, and make sound decisions. To prevent them from affecting your job search you need the help of someone who can challenge your assumptions and present alternative solutions. You need someone outside of your inner circle. You need a coach.

Hope

sunrise-freeJobseekers tend to psychologically relocate themselves during a job search. Hope, or the lack of it, determines the neighborhood they choose. The jobseeker without hope can become the psychological equivalent of a homeless person, a beggar who feels he or she has nothing to offer, and who is crippled by a sense of shame and despair. Meanwhile, those jobseekers who have hope realize that they possess inherent worth and offer genuine value, and by being able to express this they attract the help of others–complete strangers–and find the hidden job opportunities.

I am not speaking about false hope, whistling in the dark when a genuine threat is nearby. False hopes are for the deluded, but 99.9% of jobseekers can have a delusion-free hope. Why? Because their talents and skills can solve the problems afflicting employers. These jobseekers are the solutions who need to seek problems. They are not problems seeking solutions.

Today (10-1-13) I was speaking to Anita Jenke, who is the head of the Career Transitions Center of Chicago (CTC), and she told me how the CTC had to be careful who they allowed to interview them based on the slant of their story. They wanted to avoid giving any interview that fed the pessimism that is so prevalent, the hopelessness regarding the employment situation. Because, as she put it, hope is an essential element in job search; it enables jobseekers to remain positive in their job search and attractive to hiring companies. Yes, complete strangers will help you in your job search, but are less inclined to do so if you are crippled by bitterness or despair.

It’s true! When I went through the informational interviewing and networking process I thought in advance, “Dear God, shoot me right now.” I was fearful of rejection and being considered a burden to others. But after I started the process I found I loved it. I’m serious. I loved it. Because most people, people I didn’t know, wanted to help me. It restored what faith I had lost in humanity. That, by itself, was not a bad return for the time invested.

 

An illustration of the InfernGustave Dore's
An illustration of the Inferno by Gustave Dore

Dante understood the power of hope and had a sign above the gates of his poetic hell. It read, “Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.” In other words, hopelessness is hell.

More recently I have heard the power of hope summed up as follows: You can live without food for around 40 days. You can live without water for about four days. You can live without air for around four minutes. You can’t live without hope one second, because once you abandon hope you abandon life.

Therefore, jobseekers, do not abandon hope. Do not embrace false hopes. Instead, dare to believe that you have value, and that others want to help you express your value in a career. Furthermore, because of the Internet, the ability to research companies and network your way to success has never been greater.

 

Job Search Assets

Chicago is fortunate. Its Career Transitions Center (CTC) is a low-cost, high-impact asset for jobseekers. I’m unaware of a similar program in a major U.S. city. But that doesn’t mean that programs designed to assist jobseekers do not exist where you live. Here are three potential sources of assistance.

  1. The Chamber of Commerce. Sometimes your local Chamber of Commerce will organize job fairs or have other programs designed to assist people who are out of work and looking for re-employment.
  2. Houses of worship. Mega-churches are the ones that typically offer a fairly extensive array of job search services. An example of this in the greater Chicago area is Willow Creek. It is one of the largest and most influential mega-churches in the country and it offers an array of ministries that include career services. But smaller churches might also offer impressive programs. The CTC was founded by five faith communities: Chicago Temple (United Methodist), Fourth Presbyterian Church, Holy Name Cathedral (Roman Catholic), Old St. Patrick’s Church (Roman Catholic), and St. Chrysostom Church (Episcopalian). Though its roots are Christian, the CTC is a 501(c)3, not-for-profit, secular organization serving all faiths.
  3. University career services: If you are a college graduate, then you should take advantage of the career services provided by your university. Some programs provide free coaching from volunteers and if there is one thing I would encourage all jobseekers to seek out it is coaching.
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As you explore the career search services of your area look at joining a group, or starting one. Groups offer support during a time of stress and an informal venue for the giving and receiving of coaching insights.

 

The Job Search Plan

Henry David Thoreau's philosophy was, "Simplify, simplify, simplify."
Henry David Thoreau’s philosophy was, “Simplify, simplify, simplify.”

To keep from wandering lost in the dark maze of a complex problem one need only follow a simple path. First, determine what step, or steps, are the most important. This is simplifying the complex to its essential elements. Next, we need to focus on what is important until we achieve it and then repeat the process. Simplify. Focus. Achieve. This problem-solving process works in our job search as well.

What is a successful job search? It is ultimately little more than finding the best opportunity, or opportunities, and presenting your value to the organization offering this opportunity in a compelling way that results in receiving one or more offers. In essence, it is simply find the opportunity and secure it. Therefore, the two things we need to focus on are: the art of finding a job and the art of winning it.

These two tracks can work at cross purposes with one another. For example, let’s say I am a networker extraordinaire and uncover two or three excellent opportunities in the first two weeks of my job search. However, I have not spent an adequate amount of time preparing for the interviews that I now face. I think I am wonderfully prepared, but such is not the case, and I am out-interviewed by a less-qualified person who was far better at interviewing than I was. It can happen, because there are two important problems to solve in order to navigate this job-search maze, and I tackled only one of them.

Problem solving is unlocking the secrets of the maze we are in.
Problem solving is unlocking the secrets of the maze we are in.

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Therefore, in the first few weeks of your job search I recommend spending more time on preparing for the interview, because it takes time to transform yourself into the most compelling candidate. For if you uncover several informational interviewing opportunities, but are not ready for them, then you may hurt your long term job-search success.

However, you cannot put off the active networking part of the job-search task for too long, and it also takes time. Therefore, while perfecting your interviewing skills, invest time in developing your list of networking contacts and begin to target and research the industries you are most interested in for informational interviews. Then, before activating these networking lists by contacting people, make sure you have developed the following at the very least: a well-crafted value statement, three stories and the answers to any liability questions you feel certain an interviewer is likely to ask. You will still need to do more preparatory work than this, but it is enough to get you through the early stages that precede a formal interview.

No Medal For Second Place 7-9-13Should a formal interview suddenly appear, then don’t panic, develop as many other interviewing tools–detailed in No Medal for Second Place: How to Finish First in Job Interviews–as time allows. Every one of them will add to your advantage and will make you far more appealing to the hiring authority than those who drone on about their achievements in a way that is forgettable, boring and ultimately off-putting.

You can do it. There are no acceptable excuses not to do it. Simplify. Focus. Achieve.

Overcoming Networking Anxiety

anxiety2You’ve forced yourself out of bed, had a cup of coffee or two, read the paper, gone through your email, scanned the web, re-read the paper, looked at Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and then the moment that you’ve dreaded every morning for the past few months arrives. It cannot be avoided any longer. It’s time to network, to call people, to seek out the possibility of an informational interview, to be a pest, to hold your hand out, to beg….

You never thought it would be this hard, being ground to powder in the mill of humiliation. So you wonder, “Why don’t I just give up on this networking garbage?” But you know the answer. You’ve been counseled by every authority that networking is the key to finding jobs. But your subconscious mind argues forcefully, “It is a fruitless exercise, an utter waste of time!” It argues so strongly that these thoughts keep surfacing in your consciousness. And it is fruitless, until you win the war within.

Until you start thinking of yourself in positive terms, what you have to offer others, you will never be effective at networking. Those who have this positive, assertive attitude, find networking to be refreshing. Seriously. They reach out to people with confidence, briefly detailing their value, and they are heartened by the way so many complete strangers want to help them. And why do people want to help them? It is because they are energizing and not life-force drains.

The person who has won the war that is fought within is like a person who works for the Red Cross at a scene of devastation. He approaches victim after victim to see if he can help them. “Do you need water? medical aid? food?” Some say no and the worker moves on to the next person. No offense was meant and none was taken. Some of the victims say something like, “I’m fine, but go over there to Joe. He could use your help.” And that is how networking works. When you show how you can meet an important need, then those who know of someone’s need will direct you toward this person.

Do not wake up with dread, or waste valuable hours avoiding what has been an unpleasant task. Win the war within and face the day like someone who has something valuable to offer. After all, you do have valuable skills and gifts that can help hiring authorities. So, don’t run from reality, embrace it and make that call.